Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
Therapy Podcast sponsored by Zest for Life Counseling. We are your hosts, Courtney Dohmen, am FD and Celeste Webster, MSWI here for our last episode of the season, reflecting on the topics covered and what we wish we knew as brand new therapists.
[00:00:23] Speaker B: As a disclaimer, while we are therapists, we are not your therapists. This podcast is intended for information and entertainment purposes only. Does not constitute therapy, clinical supervision, or medical advice. Opinions expressed are our own and subject to change as research evolves. We do our best, but we are humans, and that means we may make mistakes.
[00:00:42] Speaker A: Okay, so last episode of the season.
[00:00:46] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:00:46] Speaker A: A whole mixed bag of feelings. We were just talking about it.
So what we're going to do today is really just going through quick questions for ourselves, like reflecting on the last season. So I guess first off on the list, which topic or episode ended up resonating with you the most and why?
[00:01:07] Speaker B: I don't know. Looking at our list.
[00:01:13] Speaker A: It'S kind of.
[00:01:13] Speaker B: Tough because we have, like, the burnout episode and then we have the burnout toolbox, and that's kind of like where a lot of my research passion comes in and, like, helping people understand.
I don't know, burnout is so common, especially as therapists. And so just understanding. One, that's common. Two, there's actually things that we can do to help you that's not just like, quit your job or see less clients or, you know, drop out of your program.
And so I feel like maybe by default, like, that still resonates with me. But I also really enjoyed all of our interview episodes as well.
[00:01:54] Speaker A: Right.
[00:01:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:01:55] Speaker A: That one was definitely your baby.
[00:01:57] Speaker B: That's my baby. Yeah.
[00:01:59] Speaker A: You took the lead on prepping both of those episodes, one of them featuring only you, because it was your passion.
[00:02:06] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:02:09] Speaker A: Yeah. I think for me, I don't know, I feel like maybe the topic or episode that ended up resonating with me the most, as well as snippets from other episodes that had similar themes, was the Fumbles episode Not Gonna Lie, which.
[00:02:25] Speaker B: Was also your baby.
[00:02:26] Speaker A: That was. But, like, it's just really good. As me. I. As me. As me. But, like, we're finishing me. I'm finishing up my master's program right now and coming to the end of it. It's like, wow, I'm starting to feel like the weight is lifted off of my brain.
It's like I have so much time and there might be a little bit of a crisis there. But, like, it's a good crisis.
[00:02:48] Speaker B: It's a crisis you want to have Right.
[00:02:51] Speaker A: But when we were doing the podcast, I was in the thick of school, and it was like, burnout was heavy on my brain and mind and in my feelings.
But hearing all those stories is really what helps me was like, wow, I'm not alone. Like, things happen, and we can laugh about it. Like, laughing is my favorite way to get through things. And maybe sometimes it's healthy, maybe sometimes it's not. But for the most part, it's really honestly been so helpful to just hear the fumbles that other people have gone through and that I've gone through and knowing that everybody's been there. And the snippets from other episodes where we have people on and they're able to say, what's your advice?
[00:03:29] Speaker B: Same thing.
[00:03:30] Speaker A: That was the same vibe where it's like, okay, they've been there, and, like, we're okay.
[00:03:35] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah. I really enjoyed that. And I think, too, there's part of that that just says, like, you're not alone.
I think that episode and everyone's comments and the stories they shared really helped with that.
[00:03:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:03:51] Speaker A: Okay, next question.
[00:03:52] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:03:53] Speaker A: What is the favorite episode to record or discuss or to prepare for? So, basically, many options for how to approach this question.
[00:04:00] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:04:01] Speaker A: But without a guest. So one of the favorite episodes that we kind of put together ourselves, my.
[00:04:06] Speaker B: Favorite one by far was probably Thunderbolts.
[00:04:10] Speaker A: I knew you were gonna say that.
[00:04:12] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, we just sat down with popcorn and watched the movie and then came back the next time we met for the podcast and had all of these ideas. And honestly, that episode probably could have been, like, three times as long if we wanted it to have been.
So you're welcome for that. Keeping it short, but I just, like, there's something so fun about being able to use an example that's also really entertaining to help us progress in our therapy skills. It's kind of similar to, like, watching. Getting a case study or something like that in school. I don't do it very often because when I'm not at work, I turn my work brain off, and I'm like, I'm just watching a fun movie. And I can do that for the most part. So it was. It was fun intentionally putting that therapy brain on to watch that, Right?
[00:05:03] Speaker A: Yeah. Honestly, I would probably say the same. Like, that was the funnest for us to put together because it's just, like, not only was it easy because it was just like, we're just watching the movie and then we're talking about it, like, with our therapy brain, but it was just. It Was fun to just have popcorn and watch a movie. Who doesn't like having popcorn? Watching a movie is awesome.
[00:05:22] Speaker B: Okay, so what would you say is your favorite guest episode?
[00:05:30] Speaker A: Well, fun fact, my mom was one of the guests, but we kept it incognito, and we will still keep it incognito, but I think that was my favorite episode for that reason, because it was just fun to be able to, like, have a conversation with my mom, but, like, not as my mom and, like, pick her professional brain, because already pick her brain as her daughter and also as a, a fellow therapist with her, but being able to do so in the more, I guess, professional outline, that was fun. And it was fun to, I guess, have that experience with this, like, new little baby of this, like, podcast with my mom, you know, kind of sharing that with her in that way. So that was fun.
[00:06:09] Speaker B: Yeah. Almost like, meeting each other, like, as.
What is that? Like, colleagues, right in the field.
[00:06:17] Speaker A: Yeah. We honestly talk all the time that we would be best friends if we we weren't. Mother, daughter, you know, she's like, if I met you in college, like, we'd be friends.
[00:06:26] Speaker B: That's a compliment.
[00:06:27] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:28] Speaker B: Oh, I don't know what mine would be.
[00:06:33] Speaker A: We've got, like, three options, so it at least limits those for you.
[00:06:36] Speaker B: Yes. But I loved every single one of them because we talked early on in the podcast, we kind of, like, had to readjust some things.
And one of the things that we wanted to adjust about the podcast was having more guests on, just because it was so fun, because I think having, yeah, both the guests on for Agency versus Private Practice was really fun, and that was fun for me to, like, meet new people in the field. And then with our IFS episode and our diagnosing episode, are also, like, my colleagues that I also have already known. So honestly, I'd probably say Rich's episodes, they're awesome. Like, I just love talking to Rich. He's so good at conceptualizing ifs and, like, that's what he, like, lives and breathes. And I think there's some, like, you can learn a lot from being able to, like, have that kind of model adherence, but where you can, your brain just can, like, put it together.
And so I really love getting to ask him questions, and I, I, I like his perspectives and things like that, but they're all really good. Yeah, I'm, I'm really glad we had all of them on the podcast.
[00:07:54] Speaker A: It's kind of a fun opportunity on our end to be able to just, like, sit back and say, Like, I get to pick this person's brain for like 30 minutes or more.
[00:08:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:03] Speaker A: And that's so funny. You don't want to often get that experience, really. Like, you meet colleagues and you don't pick their brain. You just like, you just chat. You just chat. Yeah. Like, being able to pick their brain is so fun.
[00:08:14] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:15] Speaker A: And so valuable, honestly.
[00:08:17] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:08:19] Speaker A: What.
[00:08:21] Speaker B: This is one of our, our good reflection questions. But what helps you remember that being a new therapist is a strength and not a weakness or a flaw?
[00:08:31] Speaker A: Yeah. I think for, for me it's a perspective shift because I'm still a new.
[00:08:37] Speaker B: Therapist.
[00:08:39] Speaker A: You know, But I think the strengths in being a new therapist from a perspective of me, hello, a new therapist, is that anxiety is a undercurrent, which can be a power in the sense of I'm constantly reflecting, I'm constantly like, how can I do this better? Not in personally like a self deprecating way of like, oh, poor me, like, this went so bad and now I have like so many things to improve. But like, you know, because that's the trap. Exactly. Yeah, that's the trap. And it can be easy to fall in depending on the day, I guess. But I think for the most part it's, it's a superpower to be able to say, like, I'm reflecting on every session, I'm preparing, maybe too much for every session, but in that preparation, in that reflection, you're really able to learn and grow so much. Whereas maybe, and these are assumptions, like more seasoned therapists fall into patterns and things where maybe that growth doesn't happen as much for, for you as a clinician, but also kind of, kind of cuts you off a little bit in being able to show up for your clients in a way that might be more beneficial. So.
[00:09:48] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I think you're right because being a new therapist is like a huge growth period.
Like there's no other way to describe it. You literally have to grow. Like, you have to, if you want to become a therapist, learn skills and learn information and learn how to show up in the room. And so that can be kind of a brutal experience.
[00:10:14] Speaker A: It's uncomfortable even you saying, I'm like, yeah, oof. Yeah.
[00:10:20] Speaker B: And through that you are learning so many skills, you are literally creating new neural pathways for yourself, which is really fun. I think you're right. Even myself now, there's so many things that I'm way more settled in. Like, I don't, I hardly. I mean, I do prep for my, my clients and like, we kind of set the Agenda for the next session with them at the end. And if there's something, like, unique that they really want to do that I'm maybe not as familiar with, I will probably prep for it. But a lot of the day to day stuff or things that I see weekly, I'm like, yep, all right, let's do it. And then I have a lot of those handouts or a lot of those interventions just in my brain from that growth period.
And so I think you're right. Like, there is such a strength to being willing to admit there's so much that you don't know because that effort and energy will become stuff in your toolbox that you get to just use later on.
But you're right. Like, I'm wondering now, like, what would I learn or what new handouts or what new interventions are out there? Just in the last, like, couple months with anxiety or depression, like, are there new things that I haven't looked at? Because I've already just found a lot of things that work for a lot of people. Right.
[00:11:41] Speaker A: Yeah.
Yeah. And I think this doesn't really even answer the question, but my brain kind of went here because recently in supervision, I was like, help me, supervisor. Because I feel like I have so few tools that I almost pick a. Not really or intentionally, but, like, there's almost like an intervention of the week sometimes.
[00:12:02] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:12:02] Speaker A: Where it's like, definitely it's not gonna work for everybody, but, like, almost sometimes feel like that's where my brain.
[00:12:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:10] Speaker A: And so anyways, just remembering, like, there's value in that too, in the sense you are showing up uniquely as you for that person and that intervention. While it might be the same, it fits that person differently. And it's really good practice for you as a clinician to get that practice and that intervention down.
[00:12:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:32] Speaker A: In different contexts.
[00:12:33] Speaker B: So, yes, I had a cohort mate who was very much like, every time she would learn something, she'd be like, I'm doing act with everybody this week. And then it would be like, dbt. And then she's like, I'm doing DBT with everybody this week. But there is something about, like, you have to do the skills.
[00:12:53] Speaker A: And I had a professor that always.
[00:12:55] Speaker B: Say, now is the perfect time to make mistakes. Like, we don't want you to make big mistakes, obviously, but you have to be willing to make some mistakes. And we'd rather you do it now than later, like, while you're under supervision, while you're getting really good feedback.
And I think that's really crucial. One of the Things that came to my mind while you're talking about, like what's a strength for new therapists that I think maybe seasoned therapists, they don't lose it, but maybe it's just a little bit more fresh when you're new. I think is just like the blind curiosity is not the right term. But say more where you have to ask so many questions to understand where I think sometimes therapists later on are like, oh, yeah, kind of feels like anxiety like we were talking about, like diagnosing, right. Where in the beginning you're asking so many really detailed questions because you really just want to know. Like you are trying to figure out what you can even do to help this person.
[00:14:02] Speaker A: Right.
[00:14:02] Speaker B: And sometimes like, the more information, the better.
And so I wonder if I was starting all over again right now, if I would ask more questions. Which is funny because anyone who has seen me do therapy, I ask a lot of questions.
But I really do wonder if I would ask more than I do now.
Yeah, I don't know.
[00:14:27] Speaker A: I feel like these are good questions to reflect on maybe regularly. It's like, what am I doing? Yeah, maybe freshen up a little bit because I feel like for me personally in my own life and maybe and especially as a therapist, I really have the fear of just like falling into a rut and just kind of falling into patterns, you know, because I don't want to be a copy paste therapist that doesn't work.
[00:14:47] Speaker B: So let's talk more about that. I think. Yeah, that'd be helpful.
What do you think are.
Because again, you're, you're going from being in like a school environment that's really structured to going into like your candidacy or your associates, you know, development period.
Wild? Yes, it is wild. But what do you think are some of the things that your program has set you up for success to be able to continue to like learn and grow or maybe just your personality where maybe you feel like, okay, yeah, you know what? I probably won't fall into a rut because of these things or where do you want to like put in those things?
[00:15:33] Speaker A: Yeah, I feel like between my type A personality, it's not completely type A, but there's a lot of type A in there and doing online school that like while people see online school and they're like, yeah, not for me. Give me in person. I thought the same thing. Absolutely. I would prefer in person any day because there's so much value from in person conversation and discussion where you can kind of just like enrich in the live.
[00:16:04] Speaker B: Enriching Enliven.
[00:16:06] Speaker A: Enliven. I don't know what am I speaking? Yeah, that's a word, the conversation. So you get more out of it rather than it just being like, cool, redo this. And it is what it is.
[00:16:16] Speaker B: Right.
[00:16:17] Speaker A: So while there's pros and cons. Absolutely. There are also many pros in the sense that I feel like online school really set me up for success in what does it look like after. Yeah, I think that's wonderful. So the structure, maybe I don't have a like canvas module to go to and say, cool, I'm going through this this week. But I do have the discipline of logging in Monday morning 8am and like checking what am I going to learn this week.
[00:16:50] Speaker B: Right.
[00:16:50] Speaker A: And when can I fit that in and like blocking out hours of my day when I don't have clients to like study for this particular topic for a set amount of time.
So I feel like school including personality of type A, like I'm definitely going to be carrying that through and I kind of already have because towards the end of the semester I'm surprised to find myself with a lot more time.
[00:17:15] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:15] Speaker A: And so I'm like already still doing like, still learning new things and stuff. So.
[00:17:19] Speaker B: And I think that really is like one of your strengths or like something that I, I really like about you and I really admire just as a colleague is I feel like you are highly motivated and structured. Like, it's not like you have like, I want to learn all these things and then it's like I don't know what to do too. It's like, okay, well I want to learn all these things. So let me pick one thing that I want to learn and then do that.
[00:17:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:46] Speaker B: Like very point A to point B. Like there's a lot of functionality there.
[00:17:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:54] Speaker B: Which I think is, is really great as a therapist because it is like, I mean your supervisor will continue to help you and continue to help you see areas that you're missing and help you to continue to develop.
But there is such a component that is self motivated after school.
And maybe that's one of the things, like it's good to know as a therapist is you're never truly done and.
[00:18:22] Speaker A: Which for me is a comfort. Maybe for some that's like, oh.
But for me I'm like, yes.
[00:18:28] Speaker B: I think there's something that's so appealing about that to me and maybe in terms of like my strengths as a person is I love learning.
[00:18:38] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:38] Speaker B: I love being in school. I'm not in school right now and.
[00:18:41] Speaker A: It'S give you an academic article and you're all about it.
[00:18:44] Speaker B: Yeah, I am all about it. Yeah. That's actually, that is probably another one of my strengths where somebody will mention something to me and I'm like, let me just consult the library. Let me just pull up an academic article. And before I started teaching, I didn't have access to an academic research database and I was struggling. I was like, Google Scholar is fine. It's definitely good. Please use Google, use whatever resources you have to like be research informed.
But I was so much happier when I got access to more articles just because, I don't know, it takes me just five seconds to be like, okay, what is recently published about this thing that I want to know? Instead of going to Google to be like, what's the first website that pops up? Right, yeah, so maybe that's, that's a strength of mine. Even though I'm fairly. We've talked about this. I'm type B, but like B plus.
I.
[00:19:40] Speaker A: It's a hybrid.
[00:19:41] Speaker B: I'm a hybrid model. Yeah, hybrid model. Great question though. I love that.
[00:19:46] Speaker A: Let's see. Next one that we have is what do you wish you knew when you first started?
Brand new. Just barely, not even having your first client. Brand new. Spanking therapist.
[00:19:58] Speaker B: Brand new.
I've thought about this question before and I feel like there's so many again, going back to who I am, academic things that I'm like, oh, new therapists should know this. Like, new therapists should know that you can't see well, I mean, maybe somebody could. But 40 hours, like 40 clients a week is highly unlikely.
Like even 30 brain at the end of the week, even 30 is highly unlikely. Especially in like a private practice setting.
[00:20:36] Speaker A: Like our sessions. Yes.
[00:20:37] Speaker B: Yeah. 31 hour sessions a week.
And so I think sometimes people come into this career being like, wow, the pay is really good.
Like if I'm doing that for 40 hours, that's awesome. Like I'm gonna be really set. But then realizing you're not gonna be doing that for 40 hours. And full time in the therapy realm is about 25. 25 to 28. 25 to 30 kind of depends on agency private practice.
Some people even say like 20. I think it's closer to 25.
[00:21:15] Speaker A: Yeah, 25. 28. Somewhere around there.
[00:21:16] Speaker B: 28, yeah. But recognizing that's full time.
And so it's full time because of the amount of sustained attention, effort and empathy that you're giving your clients in like a typical job. Don't quote me on this exactly. But the sustained Attention is like about half. Like you're going in for like an eight hour shift. Time that your brain is like truly zoned in is like four hours.
[00:21:47] Speaker A: Yeah, I've heard as high as like six. But like definitely not the full eight hours.
[00:21:51] Speaker B: Not the full eight hours where everything you're doing in therapy, you're zoned in 100 of the time. Even if your brain wanders for half a second, you're bringing yourself back.
[00:22:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:02] Speaker B: Because you have to, you have to be listening, you have to be thinking, you have to be connecting, empathizing. If not, they know like when we talk about like the limbic system and you know all these things. Like they know when you're co regulating with them, they know when you're listening.
And so I just wish like new therapists, new so. Oh, and insurance, that's another thing. See, a lot of like just logistical things, but a lot of private practices don't offer insurance to their employees or you know, insurance stipends or if they do, you have to work a certain amount of hours to be able to qualify for insurance or insurance reimbursements.
So I think there's some logistical things where those are like considerations.
So if you're like, I need a really structured job, I need really good benefits looking at. Okay, you can totally do that with therapy. It also just might mean that you are working for an agency or a private practice that's more hybrid of agency.
I would say that we work at a place that incorporates a little bit of some agency aspects.
It doesn't feel like a true group practice.
[00:23:19] Speaker A: No. Like there's definitely things that we do together and like we consult on things together. But you're definitely free to. Yes. Practice on your own as well. So it's a good hybrid in my, in my mind for me.
Yeah.
[00:23:32] Speaker B: But what about you? What do you feel like you wish you would have known when you first started?
[00:23:36] Speaker A: Yeah. You mean like just a little bit. Just a little bit ago?
[00:23:41] Speaker B: Yeah, way back when.
[00:23:42] Speaker A: Yeah, way back then. Back in the day. Back in the day recently.
I think honestly, what I wish I knew before going into like first session that was like a real session. You know, we can have like all these role plays all day, every day where it's like, oh, I totally killed that role play. My fellow social worker pretended so well and I did so well as a social worker. Right. Or whatever it is. But before going into like an actual session, I feel like what I really needed to remind myself of is you truly are the best and like intervention in the room. Like, I feel like my first session.
See, first sessions, first fumbles.
[00:24:26] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:24:27] Speaker A: But I was very, very stressed. I was like, I need to know all these things. Like, give me all the knowledge. I need to be able to come prepared for whatever walks in the door. Because it could be anything. Like, you don't know, and that can be stressful.
And as a new therapist, I was like, I just don't have anything. I've got this rusty spoon.
And so just being able to sit back and just say, like, we're okay. Like, slow down. And, like, I can show up and listen and really just lean on the skills of motivational interviewing that you learn early on.
[00:24:59] Speaker B: Yeah. And, like, those basic good skills.
[00:25:02] Speaker A: Yeah. And sometimes that can be enough. Right. Just being able to sit and reflect. Because sometimes when you were saying that, like, maybe space up for a second. Like, sometimes you use those reflection questions to bring yourself back. Yeah. Like, please fill in the blanks. Because, like, that was on me anyways. Just being able to, like, share, show up genuinely as you and being able to own, like, hey, I have a human brain. You know, Sometimes I forget things. Like. And you just said it, so please repeat that back to me. You know, like, showing up as you and having a genuine conversation can be huge for rapport and for just, like, helping them as well, you know? Right.
[00:25:40] Speaker B: So, yeah, I think that's wonderful.
And I think to that point of, like, you're. You're teaching your client another. I love my professors. They're great. They will always live in my heart.
[00:25:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Good conscience.
[00:25:54] Speaker B: But one of them was saying, you're always modeling to your clients.
And so if you mess up or you space out or you didn't hear something or you didn't listen, you're modeling to them how to repair.
Right. And that's a crucial thing for them to be able to experience is how can you have ruptures in a safe relationship? And repair.
[00:26:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:19] Speaker B: That's an amazing skill. Think of all the people who need that practice or, you know, even just haven't had that opportunity to have somebody who is. And hopefully as a therapist, you are a safe person for them to have that rupture and repair with where it's like, I'm so sorry. Yeah, I didn't. Can you say that again? Like, I didn't hear it. And that is more honest and genuine and can help somebody feel like you do care and you are listening.
[00:26:46] Speaker A: Right.
[00:26:47] Speaker B: If it's every five seconds, you're like, I wasn't listening to you.
Can you repeat it?
[00:26:52] Speaker A: It's like, maybe you need catching or something at that point.
[00:26:56] Speaker B: There's tools to help you. Definitely. If you're. If you're struggling to pay attention in session, that's okay. You're not alone. It happens sometimes.
[00:27:03] Speaker A: Right.
[00:27:05] Speaker B: And, like, it's okay to be human. It's okay to repair. It's okay to, you know, need to find ways to help you as a therapist to continue to do your job and continue to show up for people.
[00:27:17] Speaker A: Right?
[00:27:18] Speaker B: Yeah.
Yeah. And maybe that goes into our next question of, like, what you hope new therapists feel less alone about or what you want people who are listening to feel less alone about.
Partly that, but. Celeste, what do you think?
[00:27:34] Speaker A: Yeah, I think less alone about.
I don't know. I feel like all of the above. We've been talking about so many things where it's like, you don't have to know everything.
[00:27:44] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:27:45] Speaker A: Right. Don't feel alone in not knowing everything.
It'd be crazy if you knew everything. I don't need that in my brain. That'd be so much. Right, Right. Awesome.
[00:27:55] Speaker B: Just because you know everything doesn't mean that's what your clients need. They might just need you as an empathetic person.
It's wonderful to know things and maybe just be there.
[00:28:09] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just feeling less alone. Like, we can show up as a human, and that's what people might need. Right. And maybe also we mess up, and that's okay. Right. Like, all the things we've been talking about. Like, I hope that throughout the season and maybe even in this episode of Reflection, like, we can all just get on the same page, like, oh, look, there's other humans like me. Because guess what? Therapists are humans. We forget that when we enter our first session sometimes.
[00:28:36] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:28:38] Speaker A: It's like, no, I have to be a therapist.
[00:28:40] Speaker B: Or you have to do everything. Right.
Or you have to remember everything. Or you have to think of an intervention that will help them even though you don't know any interventions.
[00:28:49] Speaker A: Right.
Like, I have to remember their dog's name that they mentioned one time five sessions ago. And if you don't, you're a bad therapist. Yeah, false.
[00:28:59] Speaker B: I've let go of that once.
[00:29:01] Speaker A: Yeah. Good.
[00:29:02] Speaker B: And the other thing, too, is, like, I now know myself as a therapist way more, where I will just ask my clients, if they bring up somebody that I know is going to be important, like, in their sphere, they're going to talk about them a lot. They're like, oh, like my husband. I'm like, oh, what's their name?
And then they Just start saying their name. And so then I start saying their name. And so it just becomes way more natural. Like, this is a person that I really know instead of just here is a client and all of their information is on their ehr.
Their electronic health record. And I need to review it so I don't forget. It's way more comfortable just, you know, existing.
[00:29:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:29:46] Speaker B: And show up as you being invested in that person.
[00:29:48] Speaker A: It's okay to ask, like, remind me that name again.
[00:29:51] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:29:52] Speaker A: You know, like, oh, hello, you're human.
[00:29:54] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, I think that also helps people feel like you listen and you care. Because if someone's talking about a friend, they say the name. I'm like, oh, is this the same person that this other thing? And they're like, oh, no, that's this person. They're like, right. Remembered. Even though I didn't remember who it was, I remembered about them.
And I've. I've actually had clients say, like, thank you so much for remembering things about me. Like, I met with somebody who just didn't seem to remember anything about who I was or what we talked about or what we did.
Yeah. Which is kind of rough. Like, you don't have to remember everything, but it's okay to let yourself, like, learn things about your clients and remember where you picked up off last.
[00:30:33] Speaker A: And even just making a note of little things that are going on in their life that you want to follow up on. Like, oh, they just got a new job. Follow up on that next week. Even if you have to make a note to yourself, because your brain is a human brain, you can forget, like, write it down.
[00:30:46] Speaker B: Yeah. And again, going back to, like, burnout.
I know we're surprised that I'm going back to there, but it's finding, like, very small, simple habits that are successful for you. So for me, like, writing down their homework and including a little bit of what they're supposed to be doing this week, whether that's homework or not. Like, let's say they're. They're going to something and let's see, it's social anxiety. And they're going to try, you know, complimenting somebody. Put that in the notes. Like they're going to a Christmas party and they're going to compliment somebody. And then it's so easy with therapy notes or whatever system you're using to check the last note.
[00:31:25] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:26] Speaker B: It's so simple. And that's a system that works for me.
So finding. Finding a system that works for you. And when you're first starting out, you will have no idea what that is. And that's okay. Try a bunch of different things. Be okay with doing something that doesn't work, because then, you know it doesn't work or it doesn't work right now, and that's also okay.
[00:31:45] Speaker A: And it just as you go. Like, I picked different ideas from my supervisor because I was like, how do you organize this? And how do you remember things for next session? Yada, yada. Right. And being able to pick, okay, this is what they do. And I put that into my notes and I was like, okay, but this is, like, kind of too much.
And so I like, simpled it down for myself, simplified it for me. So, yeah, just find what works for you and adjust as you go.
[00:32:12] Speaker B: Definitely.
[00:32:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:32:14] Speaker B: Okay, now our. Our trusty, rusty, Dusty, trusty. Question is, Celeste, what is your advice for. For new therapists?
[00:32:24] Speaker A: Yeah, I would say similar to kind of what we talked about up to this point is just go easy on yourself. You know, I think that would be my biggest advice is just like, remember that we are human and that's okay. And we don't have to show up as our ideal self right now. Right. Like, that's wild expectations.
[00:32:50] Speaker B: Achieve self actualization.
[00:32:52] Speaker A: That's. Yeah.
[00:32:53] Speaker B: Right now.
[00:32:54] Speaker A: Not in this moment. Not for me at least.
And so just like, remembering, while it's uncomfortable, it's okay. And we have survived uncomfortable up to this point and we will continue to. So just remember, like, give yourself a break and just keep trying. Like, that's what we can do. Right. Don't stop trying, but remember you're human. Keep going.
[00:33:16] Speaker B: I like that.
I think my advice would be, I believe in you. Like, that's something that I say to my clients.
I don't even know when this happened. Like, I don't know when I started doing this, but I end up saying it to almost all of my clients at the end when they're leaving. I'm like, I believe in you. You can do it.
Because I really do. Like, I really do believe that they can do it.
And I almost think that's the same advice that I would give new therapists is like, I believe in you. Like, you can do it.
[00:33:55] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:33:55] Speaker B: And it doesn't mean that it's not hard or that you're not going to have to practice things, because that's exactly what our clients are doing. They're gonna have to practice things. But it doesn't mean that I don't believe in them.
So first off, like, I believe in you. You can do it.
Second thing is, like, you.
You don't have to be 50, 000 steps ahead or be self actualized. You just have to be one step ahead with anything that's like, you don't have to know what's happening 50 sessions from now, you just have to know what's happening this session.
And maybe not even for all the time. Maybe just you know what you want to say next or you know you want to do next.
So I think just giving yourself the grace to understand that you're not where you want to be, neither are your clients.
That's okay.
And so just letting yourself be that just work towards that next step.
It's not about becoming a licensed therapist as soon as you see your first client.
It's.
It's just about like, okay, learning how to do an intake today. That's what I'm doing today. And then, okay, what am I doing for their first session? Okay, goals. Okay, awesome. Now we know their goals. How do I do? What's one thing that could help them towards their goals?
So just one step.
When we look at like Bowen Family Therapy or differentiation, when you talk about, you know, learning where somebody else ends and I begin and being able to be our own person, you also just need to be one more step differentiated than your clients. Like you're gonna have stuff that you need to work through. I think especially when you're in your grad program, you're figuring that out. Maybe you already knew that or maybe you're learning things that you're like, whoo, that's actually, that's a, that's a sore spot for me.
[00:35:53] Speaker A: Right?
[00:35:53] Speaker B: That's normal, that's natural, that's okay. That doesn't mean that you can't be a really good therapist. It just means you know what you need to work on and let yourself work on those things for your clients. That's okay. That's not a bad thing. I think that's just more evidence that you can be a really good therapist is if you're willing to work on yourself for your clients. I think that's actually a really good spot to be in. That doesn't expect you to heal your stuff overnight. But just to be able to show up in a space for somebody else, it's okay to need to work on that sometimes. And it's okay if you're not there yet. That's what this process is for, so that you can get to a place where that's super easy to manage.
Like, there are things that really used to bother me.
I love working with families and, and there's a very special, specific family dynamic that really, like, I would have to like, I, I could identify it, I knew exactly what it was.
And it's so easy for me now to recognize that that's what it is. And now it doesn't bother me where I'm like, yep, that's the thing again.
But it, it doesn't show up as like, you know, resistance from me to my clients anymore because I was okay with recognizing that that's I, why I needed to grow. Right. So I think circling back to like, I believe I, I believe in you. You can do it. And it's okay that this is a process and eventually you'll get the hang of it. And not that you'll come out the other side because you're always going to be learning, you're always going to want to, you know, manage things that come up for you. There's always probably going to be new things that keep coming up for you.
But I really do think you can get to the place where it's a manageable career.
[00:37:46] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I think adding to that, what has come to my mind as you're talking is sometimes you'll make maybe small mistakes or you'll encounter ethical dilemma that is new for you or something that just makes you feel not prepared or uncomfortable or both. And you just kind of are crawling in your skin a little bit and it's just like. Anyways, speaking from experience, like, you can feel so uncomfortable and sometimes in those moments we'll have thoughts of just like, cool, therapy's not for me. See you next time.
[00:38:23] Speaker B: Yes, right.
[00:38:25] Speaker A: But at the end of the day, it's like we can then take that moment to practice what we preach. Right. Just regulating ourselves and be able to take it one step at a time. Consult our supervisor, consult all our colleagues, you know, utilize those resources and just breathe and just know, like when we are new, we will have so many uncomfortable situations, you know, and so many things where it's like we're second guessing ourselves and that is okay. You know, they become less as you go even for me, as like from brand new to just new therapist.
Like there are things that have, like it becomes less as you go, where you, you feel less uncomfortable as you go.
[00:39:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:39:11] Speaker A: Remembering it's okay.
Yeah, I am new and it's okay. I'm new.
[00:39:16] Speaker B: I'm really glad that you brought that up because that is such a common experience too where you go into this being like, I want to be a therapist and you're so confident and then you have these Experiences where you're like, nope. Like, I'm actually, no, thank you, or, yeah, I'm done. Or this isn't working out, or this is really difficult.
And just recognizing that's also normal.
Like, the best therapists that you know have been there, you know, whether that's seriously contemplating dropping out or that's, you know, just the passive thought that helps you feel better sometimes. It's like, I could always drop out. If I had. I could always change my mind.
[00:39:57] Speaker A: I could go work in a national park and be happy.
[00:40:01] Speaker B: Yes.
And it's okay. Like, even, you know, maybe some people that are listening eventually do decide that they want to do something else that's also okay.
[00:40:11] Speaker A: Right.
[00:40:12] Speaker B: There's. It's not like there's a right or wrong destination for your life. That's one of my favorite things when people are like, oh, it just feels like the right thing to do. And I'm like, is it?
[00:40:24] Speaker A: Maybe there's this other thing also, Right.
[00:40:26] Speaker B: Yeah. Maybe there's so many right ways, and maybe that's even just finding out what is the best fit for you as a therapist. Maybe you're in a.
A spot as a therapist. That's not a good fit and you need a new environment.
So it's okay. You're gonna get through it. It's normal to question.
It's normal to think this is really hard.
[00:40:46] Speaker A: Because it is. Yeah.
And then you'll know better for the next time.
[00:40:50] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:40:50] Speaker A: Something like this comes up. I feel like every time something hard comes up, that's where my brain goes. Not immediately. Maybe the first thought is, oh.
[00:41:00] Speaker B: Internal screaming.
[00:41:02] Speaker A: Yeah. But then my second thought is like, okay, we're all right. Like, I will know better now for the next time. This is what I will do differently so that I don't find myself maybe in another uncomfortable situation similar to this, you know?
[00:41:16] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:41:16] Speaker A: Whatever that might be.
[00:41:17] Speaker B: You are always going to have new situations, and when you start out, everything is new. But then as you keep going, you'll still have new things every once in a while. So it's not like you're going to lock into this career and it's going to be the exact same. It will get familiar to you, but there will always be new things. So look ex. Like, look forward to that. Look forward to, you know, the new experience of being comfortable. Look forward to the new experience of getting into a routine that you really like or a new experience of learning a new thing that you didn't know before.
It's actually really.
I feel so privileged and grateful to be a therapist. Like, to be in the spot where we can hold space for other people, that we can show up for other people, that we can genuinely offer people things that help.
[00:42:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:42:16] Speaker B: So I feel really honored to be in this. This profession and look forward to that, because when you get through all the hard and all the difficult, I think you'll. You'll end up somewhere similar where you're like, I'm actually really grateful for this.
[00:42:33] Speaker A: So, yeah, it's a cool job. It's a wild job. And maybe it's not for everybody, but, yeah, it just. If your personality sounds like you want something new every day, you want to push yourself out of your comfort zone and all the different. Everything like this is for you. If you're not sold, that's okay.
[00:42:56] Speaker B: Perfect.
[00:42:57] Speaker A: Okay. Well, thank you to all of our Zest for Therapy podcast listeners for joining us today to just chat, really.
If you have thoughts that you want to share with us about our first session, please let us know.
[00:43:08] Speaker B: Our first season.
[00:43:10] Speaker A: For our first season. Did I say session?
[00:43:12] Speaker B: Yes, you're welcome to.
Thank you so much. We've really appreciated it.
